On Tue, 29 Aug 2023 at 16:01, Dr Greg Low via ozdotnet < ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com> wrote: [...] We just can’t keep doing this.

Oh, yes we can.

It's called money laundering. There are many ways to do it. On Tue, 29 Aug 2023, 4:02 pm Dr Greg Low via ozdotnet, < ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com> wrote:

I’ll bet it ends up reminiscent of the local hotel quarantine project. Unbelievable amounts spent on it but who authorised it? Apparently, no-one. Yet large sums were going out the door, and the “real” details need to remain secret.

The Commonwealth Games? A fortune paid to consultants to do the costing, and when the price is $6B not $2B, no-one is apparently responsible, and worse, yet again, secrecy surrounds most of it.

In Victoria, apparently we spent more on MyKi than NASA spent putting Curiosity on Mars, and NASA invented the Sky Crane as part of that project. We got a card system that’s already being replaced.

The census debacle looks like a choice of the wrong technology, and wrong specifications for testing. But again, no heads roll when it happens.

And so on, and so on.

Apparently for this business register stuff, a primary issue is that the chosen platform didn’t go even close to meeting requirements or costs to modify. Yet, again, I’ll bet no-one is responsible and wears the cost except the public.

We just can’t keep doing this.

Regards,

Greg

Dr Greg Low

1300SQLSQL (1300 775 775) office | +61 419201410 mobile

SQL Down Under | Web: https://sqldownunder.com | About Greg: https://about.me/greg.low

*From:* Dr Greg Low *Sent:* Tuesday, August 29, 2023 3:51 PM *To:* ozDotNet <ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com> *Cc:* Tom Rutter <therutter@gmail.com> *Subject:* RE: [OT] Junked business registry overhaul blew out by $2.3b

It’s only public money, right?

In the end, who is getting sacked? Who is being sued? Who is bearing direct consequences of this, apart from the public?

My guess? No-one.

Regards,

Greg

Dr Greg Low

1300SQLSQL (1300 775 775) office | +61 419201410 mobile

SQL Down Under | Web: https://sqldownunder.com | About Greg: https://about.me/greg.low

*From:* Tom Rutter via ozdotnet <ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com> *Sent:* Tuesday, August 29, 2023 3:02 PM *To:* ozDotNet <ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com> *Cc:* Tom Rutter <therutter@gmail.com> *Subject:* [OT] Junked business registry overhaul blew out by $2.3b

Another one bites the dust…

https://www.afr.com/politics/federal/bleeding-money-labor-scraps-morrison-bu...

-- ozdotnet mailing list To manage your subscription, access archives: https://codify.mailman3.com/

You can also read the review. It’s available online. Riveting stuff, and of course, with lots redacted because we wouldn’t want to name names. https://treasury.gov.au/sites/default/files/2023-08/review-modernising-busin... Regards, Greg Dr Greg Low 1300SQLSQL (1300 775 775) office | +61 419201410 mobile SQL Down Under | Web: https://sqldownunder.com<https://sqldownunder.com/> | About Greg: https://about.me/greg.low From: mike smith via ozdotnet <ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2023 4:23 PM To: ozDotNet <ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com> Cc: mike smith <meski.oz@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [OT] Junked business registry overhaul blew out by $2.3b Here's a non paywalled one https://www.innovationaus.com/burning-12m-a-month-govt-scraps-business-regis... On Tue, 29 Aug 2023, 14:34 Tom Rutter via ozdotnet, <ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com<mailto:ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com>> wrote: Another one bites the dust… https://www.afr.com/politics/federal/bleeding-money-labor-scraps-morrison-bu... -- ozdotnet mailing list To manage your subscription, access archives: https://codify.mailman3.com/

You can also read the review. It’s available online. Riveting stuff, and of course, with lots redacted because we wouldn’t want to name names.

https://treasury.gov.au/sites/default/files/2023-08/review-modernising-busin...

I can't read 340 pages this afternoon, I have some coding to do!! I did notice there are 48 impacts in the document, like: program impacts adversely impacted material impact do not impact impacted agencies change impact severely impacted market impacts negative impact no cash impact intended impacts directly impact clearly impact economic impact financial impact *Greg K*

Worse, they were probably drowning in XML schema definitions. Only one mention of XML in the redacted report, but three mentions of SBR1, so that still counts. 😁 -T On 29/08/2023 16:35, Greg Keogh via ozdotnet wrote:

Couldn't they recruit enough COBOL programmers?

/Greg K/

On Tue, 29 Aug 2023 at 16:30, mike smith via ozdotnet <ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com> wrote:

Here's a non paywalled one

https://www.innovationaus.com/burning-12m-a-month-govt-scraps-business-regis...

Am hesitant to share much but apparently the sh!t show was due to earlier decisions, 2 or so years old. Technically a lot of the work was being delivered successfully. On Tue, 29 Aug 2023 at 17:36, Greg Keogh via ozdotnet <ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com> wrote:

Worse, they were probably drowning in XML schema definitions.

...

Only one mention of XML in the redacted report, but three mentions of SBR1, so that still counts. 😁

Aha! That leads to a bit of IT tech talk I can sort-of understand:

The MBR’s starting point for the technology architecture was Foster Moore’s 124 registry software, Catalyst. Catalyst was selected as the commercial-off-the-shelf product for the MBR implementation, following a formal approach to market and design validation with Foster Moore. 125 During the course of the program, the implementation changed to a later version of Catalyst called Verne.

Verne is a cloud-hosted registry product that uses Linux/Unix OS and a document database that is suitable for registries. It uses a lesser-known Java-based programming language called Groovy. 126 Verne provides out-of-the-box functionalities for registration management, client management, content management, access management, configuration management, analytics and reporting, data provision, account management, communication management, document management, API management, and fee and revenue management. The user interface framework provides a flexible way to generate XML based APIs.

I've heard of Groovy <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apache_Groovy>, but now I see it's a Java-like static or dynamic language. Foster Moore's Verne <https://www.fostermoore.com/verne> software is some gigantic off-the-shelf corporate registry software product that claims to be highly configurable. There's no mention of what back-end database it uses.

*Greg K* -- ozdotnet mailing list To manage your subscription, access archives: https://codify.mailman3.com/

If you want a project to fail the best thing to do is to allow the govt to run it On Tue, 29 Aug 2023 at 19:30, Dr Greg Low via ozdotnet < ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com> wrote:

Another one though where the project has many parts, almost all of which were to be delivered at the end. The only delivered item is the now orphaned Director ID.

Have we learned nothing about delivering projects in the last half century?

Regards

Greg

Get Outlook for iOS <https://aka.ms/o0ukef> ------------------------------ *From:* DotNet Dude via ozdotnet <ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com> *Sent:* Tuesday, August 29, 2023 7:19:34 PM *To:* ozDotNet <ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com> *Cc:* DotNet Dude <adotnetdude@gmail.com>

*Subject:* Re: [OT] Junked business registry overhaul blew out by $2.3b

Am hesitant to share much but apparently the sh!t show was due to earlier decisions, 2 or so years old. Technically a lot of the work was being delivered successfully.

On Tue, 29 Aug 2023 at 17:36, Greg Keogh via ozdotnet < ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com> wrote:

Worse, they were probably drowning in XML schema definitions. Only one mention of XML in the redacted report, but three mentions of SBR1, so that still counts. 😁

Aha! That leads to a bit of IT tech talk I can sort-of understand:

The MBR’s starting point for the technology architecture was Foster Moore’s 124 registry software, Catalyst. Catalyst was selected as the commercial-off-the-shelf product for the MBR implementation, following a formal approach to market and design validation with Foster Moore. 125 During the course of the program, the implementation changed to a later version of Catalyst called Verne.

Verne is a cloud-hosted registry product that uses Linux/Unix OS and a document database that is suitable for registries. It uses a lesser-known Java-based programming language called Groovy. 126 Verne provides out-of-the-box functionalities for registration management, client management, content management, access management, configuration management, analytics and reporting, data provision, account management, communication management, document management, API management, and fee and revenue management. The user interface framework provides a flexible way to generate XML based APIs.

I've heard of Groovy <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apache_Groovy>, but now I see it's a Java-like static or dynamic language. Foster Moore's Verne <https://www.fostermoore.com/verne> software is some gigantic off-the-shelf corporate registry software product that claims to be highly configurable. There's no mention of what back-end database it uses.

*Greg K* -- ozdotnet mailing list To manage your subscription, access archives: https://codify.mailman3.com/

-- ozdotnet mailing list To manage your subscription, access archives: https://codify.mailman3.com/

The ones swimming in cash seem to be the ones doing the current projects, and having them stretch out forever. Regards, Greg Dr Greg Low 1300SQLSQL (1300 775 775) office | +61 419201410 mobile SQL Down Under | Web: https://sqldownunder.com<https://sqldownunder.com/> | About Greg: https://about.me/greg.low From: David Burstin via ozdotnet <ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com> Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2023 10:45 AM To: ozDotNet <ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com> Cc: Tom Rutter <therutter@gmail.com>; David Burstin <david.burstin@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [OT] Junked business registry overhaul blew out by $2.3b Maybe we should set up OzDotNet Consultants specializing in government contracts? We could be swimming in cash! On Wed, 30 Aug 2023 at 10:31, Tom Rutter via ozdotnet <ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com<mailto:ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com>> wrote: If you want a project to fail the best thing to do is to allow the govt to run it On Tue, 29 Aug 2023 at 19:30, Dr Greg Low via ozdotnet <ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com<mailto:ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com>> wrote: Another one though where the project has many parts, almost all of which were to be delivered at the end. The only delivered item is the now orphaned Director ID. Have we learned nothing about delivering projects in the last half century? Regards Greg Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef> ________________________________ From: DotNet Dude via ozdotnet <ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com<mailto:ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com>> Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2023 7:19:34 PM To: ozDotNet <ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com<mailto:ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com>> Cc: DotNet Dude <adotnetdude@gmail.com<mailto:adotnetdude@gmail.com>> Subject: Re: [OT] Junked business registry overhaul blew out by $2.3b Am hesitant to share much but apparently the sh!t show was due to earlier decisions, 2 or so years old. Technically a lot of the work was being delivered successfully. On Tue, 29 Aug 2023 at 17:36, Greg Keogh via ozdotnet <ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com<mailto:ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com>> wrote: Worse, they were probably drowning in XML schema definitions. Only one mention of XML in the redacted report, but three mentions of SBR1, so that still counts. 😁 Aha! That leads to a bit of IT tech talk I can sort-of understand: The MBR’s starting point for the technology architecture was Foster Moore’s 124 registry software, Catalyst. Catalyst was selected as the commercial-off-the-shelf product for the MBR implementation, following a formal approach to market and design validation with Foster Moore. 125 During the course of the program, the implementation changed to a later version of Catalyst called Verne. Verne is a cloud-hosted registry product that uses Linux/Unix OS and a document database that is suitable for registries. It uses a lesser-known Java-based programming language called Groovy. 126 Verne provides out-of-the-box functionalities for registration management, client management, content management, access management, configuration management, analytics and reporting, data provision, account management, communication management, document management, API management, and fee and revenue management. The user interface framework provides a flexible way to generate XML based APIs. I've heard of Groovy<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apache_Groovy>, but now I see it's a Java-like static or dynamic language. Foster Moore's Verne<https://www.fostermoore.com/verne> software is some gigantic off-the-shelf corporate registry software product that claims to be highly configurable. There's no mention of what back-end database it uses. Greg K -- ozdotnet mailing list To manage your subscription, access archives: https://codify.mailman3.com/ -- ozdotnet mailing list To manage your subscription, access archives: https://codify.mailman3.com/ -- ozdotnet mailing list To manage your subscription, access archives: https://codify.mailman3.com/

My favourite was Brisbane’s Go Card. Had a friend driving busses in Brisbane, and when it was first released, they had the sensitivity wrong. He’d drive past a bus stop, and it would charge everyone standing there, even if they weren’t getting on. It fascinates me that we continue to feel the need to develop these things, pretty much from scratch. As for the "I'll get some mates together and do it for half the price, I fondly remember the guy that quoted to paint the Sydney Harbour Bridge with his son. Their quote was a fraction of the prevailing cost. Yes, “how hard can it be” 😊 Regards, Greg Dr Greg Low 1300SQLSQL (1300 775 775) office | +61 419201410 mobile SQL Down Under | Web: https://sqldownunder.com<https://sqldownunder.com/> | About Greg: https://about.me/greg.low From: Greg Keogh via ozdotnet <ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com> Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2023 11:15 AM To: ozDotNet <ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com> Cc: Greg Keogh <gfkeogh@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [OT] Junked business registry overhaul blew out by $2.3b Maybe we should set up OzDotNet Consultants specializing in government contracts? We could be swimming in cash! Yeah, when I see news about a planned $4bn IT project going ahead, I think "I'll get some mates together and do it for half the price". A replacement MYKI system, no problems. As Homer Simpsons often says, "How hard can it be?" -- Greg K

Why does every state government want to build their own Myki? Mike On Wed, 30 Aug 2023, 10:47 Greg Keogh via ozdotnet, <ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com> wrote:

Maybe we should set up OzDotNet Consultants specializing in government

...

contracts? We could be swimming in cash!

Yeah, when I see news about a planned $4bn IT project going ahead, I think "I'll get some mates together and do it for half the price".

A replacement MYKI system, no problems. As Homer Simpsons often says, "How hard can it be?"

-- *Greg K* -- ozdotnet mailing list To manage your subscription, access archives: https://codify.mailman3.com/

It's a form of money laundering. Create a local project that you can inflate all the invoices on. The goal is to shift public "taxpayer" money into the hands of private operators, preferably your mates, and some of that money will "somehow" end up in your hands. Even better if you hire a company with an offshore subsidiary as it's much harder to track monetary flow and can end up in your Caymans bank account. If you want a fun way to look at pretty much everything in a different light, I highly recommend watching the Ozark tv series. Both major parties have been doing it, well, forever really. On Wed, 30 Aug 2023, 12:00 pm mike smith via ozdotnet, < ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com> wrote:

Why does every state government want to build their own Myki?

Mike

On Wed, 30 Aug 2023, 10:47 Greg Keogh via ozdotnet, <ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com> wrote:

...

Maybe we should set up OzDotNet Consultants specializing in government

...

contracts? We could be swimming in cash!

Yeah, when I see news about a planned $4bn IT project going ahead, I think "I'll get some mates together and do it for half the price".

A replacement MYKI system, no problems. As Homer Simpsons often says, "How hard can it be?"

-- *Greg K* -- ozdotnet mailing list To manage your subscription, access archives: https://codify.mailman3.com/

-- ozdotnet mailing list To manage your subscription, access archives: https://codify.mailman3.com/